allison,

@pernia thoughts on alpine having a nearly 100% chance of moving to systemd in the near future?

icedquinn,
@icedquinn@blob.cat avatar

@allison @pernia oh god burn it with fire

pernia,
@pernia@cum.salon avatar

@allison no way where did you hear that

allison,

@pernia https://social.treehouse.systems/@ariadne/112133178203213124 I can't find the exact thread I was thinking of but see for example this, it's definitely something that is being planned

pernia,
@pernia@cum.salon avatar

@allison eh, that example seems like certain openbsd people porting wayland, it'll take more than "look it runs" to convince em.

that being said if dockershit requires systemd for whatever reason thats a scary situation for alpine

i hope they fork if anything happens

allison,

@pernia considering the influence of kaniini on the project and the paucity of politically and technologically viable alternative courses of action given their stated wish to abandon openrc, I would be very surprised if anything but systemd is the ultimate outcome of this

pernia,
@pernia@cum.salon avatar

@allison fuck, is kaninii actually an alpine dev?

allison,

@pernia You didn't know?

pernia,
@pernia@cum.salon avatar

@allison this is complete news to me. last i heard of kaniini was her being the common evil when i first joined feddy

allison,

@pernia yeah she's been a prominent figure in the alpine scene basically forever, the taint of both her and devault combined with the things that have been explained to me about how dysfunctionally the project is run lead me to conclude that anyone who willingly and knowingly runs alpine deserves everything they get

pernia,
@pernia@cum.salon avatar

@allison but alpine is comfy u_u

allison,

@pernia there's a part of me which is considering chimera linux ngl but at that point I might as well throw the baby out with the bathwater and stop using linux

a7,

@allison @pernia
ya just use a bsd at the point, they are comfy and their license is more punk rock

PurpCat,
@PurpCat@clubcyberia.co avatar

@a7 @pernia @allison >tfw illumos is dead as a desktop OS

a7,

@PurpCat @pernia @allison desktop support is pretty good on fBSD at this point short of wireless drivers.

allison,

@a7 @pernia @PurpCat FreeBSD devs wireless stuff turns me off the platform completely, I have much more faith in the OpenBSD devs to deliver a working product (and now that softdep has been removed from the filesystem, maybe they can revisit things like TRIM which are the primary blockers to me using it as things currently stand)

PurpCat,
@PurpCat@clubcyberia.co avatar

@allison @pernia @a7 I think about those freebsd con photos where everyone is using MacBooks a lot.

a7,

@PurpCat @allison @pernia in my profile it says freefags get fucked macos is the best nix operating system

PurpCat,
@PurpCat@clubcyberia.co avatar

@a7 @pernia @allison so the whole reason I was politisperging earlier today and feeling kinda dodgy was literally, Lenovo is making me insane.

Lenovo literally tells service people that only authorized people should be replacing FRUs. I'm fucking serious.

allison,

@PurpCat @pernia @a7 Lenovo is literally the worst vendor these days, I'd rather trust HP over them and that's saying something

mischievoustomato,
@mischievoustomato@rebased.taihou.website avatar

i want the HP 15-FD0007LA

skylar,
@skylar@misskey.yandere.love avatar

@mischievoustomato @PurpCat @pernia @allison @a7 why would you pick that turd over the decent shit HP makes

t. very happy with my zbook 14 G10A
unlike intel's garbage, the AMD integrated GPU manages to outperform the nvidia workstation card in the intel model

PurpCat,
@PurpCat@clubcyberia.co avatar

@skylar @pernia @allison @a7 @mischievoustomato we need to get tomato an elitebook

allison,

@skylar @PurpCat @pernia @a7 @mischievoustomato probably for the same reason I have an acer 💸

PurpCat,
@PurpCat@clubcyberia.co avatar

@allison @pernia @a7 @skylar @mischievoustomato at least it's not lenovo

allison,
allison,

@PurpCat @a7 @mischievoustomato @pernia @skylar (I got it because it was the cheapest Ryzen that looked decent during the peak COVID market and it has actually turned out really well for me considering, although I don't think someone with less tech skills than me would have a particularly good time with it)

mischievoustomato,
@mischievoustomato@rebased.taihou.website avatar

> although I don't think someone with less tech skills than me would have a particularly good time with it
wdym

allison,

@mischievoustomato @PurpCat @pernia @a7 @skylar It idles really hot on Windows, basically needs Linux to be usable as a daily driver

PurpCat,
@PurpCat@clubcyberia.co avatar
mischievoustomato,
@mischievoustomato@rebased.taihou.website avatar

I'm upset over lenovo soldering ram in laptops.

PurpCat,
@PurpCat@clubcyberia.co avatar
pernia,
@pernia@cum.salon avatar

@allison @PurpCat @a7 whats wrong with fbsd wifi? do intel cards work atleast?

allison,

@pernia @PurpCat @a7 The problem is that they're in the middle of a massive rewrite to just try pulling in Linux drivers verbatim instead of writing their own, thus FreeBSD is stuck with (afaik) 802.11g speeds on newer intel hardware while OpenBSD already has fully functional 802.11ac (as well as Haiku, which imports OpenBSD's drivers)

pernia,
@pernia@cum.salon avatar

@allison @PurpCat @a7 openbsd actually supports up to 211ax cards i think

PurpCat,
@PurpCat@clubcyberia.co avatar
pernia,
@pernia@cum.salon avatar

@PurpCat @allison @a7 i mean iwn is fine

PurpCat,
@PurpCat@clubcyberia.co avatar

@pernia @allison @a7 the issue with illumos is 9/10 illumos devs don't use it as a desktop OS, they use it in a VM or on baremetal servers as a VM/zone host.

So it has support for say, Intel 10gbe cards but not for newer Intel Wi-Fi, because it's hardware on a server.
https://illumos.org/man/4D/ixgbe

PurpCat,
@PurpCat@clubcyberia.co avatar

@pernia @a7 @allison the other problem with illumos is something that @despair can attest to: it's a pain to wrangle it to be a host for something like Pleroma because a lot of the things the stack depends on simply don't work or are not tested well on illumos.

You need to do a lot of wrangling to make it work.

PurpCat,
@PurpCat@clubcyberia.co avatar

@a7 @allison @despair @pernia I also remember that I couldn't build Mumble and I literally filed a bug report on some bullshit that it depended on that was hardcoded to find Linux saying "you know there's more *nixes than just Linux, right?"

despair,
@despair@gearlandia.haus avatar

@PurpCat @pernia @allison @a7 that might have been in the qt4 era (still got it built..with sunpro even), the recent qt5-6 mumbles were much better about this

PurpCat,
@PurpCat@clubcyberia.co avatar

@despair @pernia @allison @a7 If I had friends who used this more I'd be likely to build it easier.

I'm literally the only person in many friend circles using illumos or I'm using it for different things than they are. I'm not sure how many people even run nextcloud on illumos, but I've learned right away that pkgsrc updating it breaks it and you have to manually send a command line command to do the upgrade properly.

pernia,
@pernia@cum.salon avatar

@PurpCat @allison @a7 well i mean what do you want, its a server OS. a derivative, smartOS, is a great DC OS, with its linux-compatible containers and exokernel vm shit

PurpCat,
@PurpCat@clubcyberia.co avatar

@pernia @allison @a7 I love using SmartOS for my nextcloud server, as a dumb ZFS nextcloud box it's great.

I should install media streaming software on it though.

icedquinn,
@icedquinn@blob.cat avatar

@allison @PurpCat @pernia @a7 unfortunately the systemd cancer means increasing amounts of software doesn't run on BSD. even wayland is a tire fire because it doesn't do anything to sanitize inputs (it just assumes you have evdev, which freebsd baically adopted and netbsd has been trying to bodge around)

allison,

@icedquinn @PurpCat @pernia @a7 History repeating tbh, Linux is SysV and BSD is itself

PurpCat,
@PurpCat@clubcyberia.co avatar

@allison @icedquinn @pernia @a7 Yeah, pretty much.

This isn't an issue on server shit as much as "oh this build system is hardcoded to look for Linux" and the BSD guys have like 400 jank workarounds that aren't merged back in.

PurpCat,
@PurpCat@clubcyberia.co avatar

@allison @a7 @icedquinn @pernia It's also a Linux issue because I've hosted mumble on weird non-x86 arches in the past during "Skype migration attempt 420".

allison,

@PurpCat @icedquinn @pernia @a7 this definitely checks out, I personally saw mumble get ported to netbsd a few years back and that was a fairly ugly process

PurpCat,
@PurpCat@clubcyberia.co avatar

@allison @icedquinn @pernia @a7 Porting to illumos these days is really like porting to BSD; because you might have the GNU userland to some degree (bash and GCC, it's built with GCC instead of SUNWpro) but you lack SystemD, dbus, and most importantly it's not Linux.

I've heard of Linux zones. I might try fiddling with using murmur on those.

PurpCat,
@PurpCat@clubcyberia.co avatar

@allison @a7 @icedquinn @pernia (also I am so eepy I forgot I use omnios not smartos)

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