graf,
@graf@poa.st avatar
sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@graf oh nice! I hope it's added to my repos soon.

kirby,

@graf :0000:

graf,
@graf@poa.st avatar

@Moon @p @sjw

dcc,
@dcc@annihilation.social avatar

@graf @sjw @Moon @p Apache seems to not have this problem :pepe_cofe_2:

Moon,
@Moon@shitposter.club avatar

@graf @sjw @p back to apache I guess

sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@Moon @graf @p I don't remember enough to even get a static page going on Apache.

I'll just switch to whatever the Nextcloud/MariaDB/Rocky Linux version ends up being.

If I were to switch webservers completely then I'd probably opt to give Caddy a shot.

Moon,
@Moon@shitposter.club avatar

@sjw @graf @p people like caddy these days

graf,
@graf@poa.st avatar

@Moon @sjw @p >people
zoomers* like caddy
ive spent too much time with nginx to give up now. did you know they quoted us 2000$/mo for an nginx plus license lmfao

p,
@p@shitposter.club avatar

@graf @sjw @Moon

> did you know they quoted us 2000$/mo for an nginx plus license lmfao

That is not even remotely reasonable.

p,
@p@shitposter.club avatar

@sjw @graf @Moon I mean, he forked the project, the project didn't disappear.

p,
@p@shitposter.club avatar

@Moon @graf @sjw lighttpd still works, is still fast. (It's also not probably still what Youtube uses, but they probably use a fork of it anyway and it handled Youtube when it was on the way up and long after the Google acquisition.) I run it in a lot of places because nginx, in addition to not supporting CGI (which I need for stuff sometimes), nginx has a really rude config file, and one of lighttpd's early selling points was "The configuration file format is not like Apache's". <Location></Location>, motherfuckers!

graf,
@graf@poa.st avatar

@p @sjw @Moon hate that pete im sorry im not going to use html bracketing to set up my webserver those are statements dreamed up by the utterly deranged

p,
@p@shitposter.club avatar

@graf @sjw @Moon It's worse, it was supposed to be XML. Then they added the weird single-line syntax so you could write

<Location "/mirror/foo/">
ProxyPass "http://backend.example.com/"
</Location>

Instead of

<Location "/mirror/foo/">
<ProxyPass>http://backend.example.com/</ProxyPass>

Or maybe it was like this:

<ProxyPass "http://backend.example.com/" />

I don't remember. I was traumatized.

</Location>

We were just kids, graf. And they put us in the middle of that Apache httpd 1.3 hell. I can see every detail of the villages we burned. I can hear the screams, right here, it's like they never stopped. My God, I can feel the heat from the flames! I had to cover my buddy at the network console, it was chaos. Mortar rounds landing, they always seemed like they were an inch away, hostiles shoulder to shoulder, maybe a yard away, maybe a mile, but they felt like they were towering over us. I was terrified but there was nowhere to run, nothing around us but enemies and the dead, I couldn't even hear him typing, but he kept nudging me. I kept them off, though I don't know how. He nudged me again and so I turned around and told him I was kinda busy, but he just slumped, and jutting out of his neck were two massive, bracketed tags, <Shrapnel> and </Shrapnel>, and I realized I'd been providing cover fire for a dead man this entire time. I didn't have time for the init scripts, I just rebooted the damn box. How I got out of there, I don't know, it was like a blood-drenched nightmare that gradually subsided--I hope to God none of them were friendlies--and then when I regained my senses, I was walking down a quiet road towards the grey, pre-dawn sun.

sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@p @graf @Moon I still remember the day when I had to deal with Apache web server configurable files. It was a nightmare. A nightmare that haunts me to this day.

I was a young and naive web developer, fresh out of college. I thought I knew everything about web development. I thought I could handle any challenge. I was wrong.

I was assigned to work on a project that required setting up a web server on a Linux machine. I had never done that before, but I was confident. I downloaded Apache, installed it, and started it. Everything seemed fine. Until I opened the browser and saw the dreaded message: "403 Forbidden".

I panicked. I checked the logs, but they were useless. I searched online, but I found conflicting and outdated information. I tried to edit the .htaccess file, but I had no idea what I was doing. I messed up the syntax, the permissions, the directives. I broke everything.

I spent hours, days, weeks, trying to fix it. But nothing worked. I was stuck in a loop of frustration, confusion, and despair. I felt like I was in a war zone, dodging bullets, bombs, and booby traps. I heard the screams of my fellow developers, who were also struggling with Apache. I saw the blood of my code, spilling on the terminal. I smelled the smoke of my burning CPU, overheating from the endless requests.

I couldn't take it anymore. I gave up. I quit the project, the job, the career. I left the web development world behind. I never looked back.

But sometimes, when I close my eyes, I still see those configurable files. Those horrible, horrible files. They haunt me. They taunt me. They remind me of my failure.

Apache web server configurable files. The worst thing that ever happened to me.

graf,
@graf@poa.st avatar

@sjw @Moon @p is this chatgpt

p,
@p@shitposter.club avatar

@graf @sjw @Moon Ha, it reads a little like it.

sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@graf @Moon @p yes but I was gifted a 1080 Ti so soon I'll be running my own models.

p,
@p@shitposter.club avatar

@sjw @graf @Moon Nice. What are you gonna use for training images? Like, it seems like a lot of people just grab an existing Stable Diffusion model and then tune it, I think it'd be more interesting to do one from scratch, but I don't know where any of the stuff is.

sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@p @graf @Moon not sure how good the card will be for training since it doesn't have the AI hardware.

Stable Diffusion 3 is about to drop.

To start with I'm just going to play with LLMs before trying out the image generation stuff as that seems more involved to setup.

sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@p @graf @Moon I always forget about lighttpd
Ya know, if I were to leave nginx that would probably be what I'd learn.

Can it be used as a reverse proxy and load balancer for Minecraft servers?

p,
@p@shitposter.club avatar

@sjw @graf @Moon

> Ya know, if I were to leave nginx that would probably be what I'd learn.

If you know how nginx works, you can pick up lighttpd in fifteen minutes. Precedence is easier to read, you don't have so many rules about what block something has to be in (so if you want "/robots.txt" to always point to the same file for every vhost, you can just put that at the top), you don't have to size hash tables manually. Just a little nicer overall.

> Can it be used as a reverse proxy and load balancer

Yes.

> for Minecraft servers?

That part I don't know, because I don't know how Minecraft works. If Minecraft uses HTTP for that, then yes. I do know that LetsEncrypt tooling kinda hates lighttpd for some reason.

sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@p @graf @Moon I use zerossl and acme.sh so that's fine

Minecraft uses UDP

Nginx can proxy UDP traffic

graf,
@graf@poa.st avatar

@sjw @Moon @p never thought of using nginx as a reverse proxy for minecraft traffic but it would work. we use an SRV record

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;_minecraft._tcp.poa.st.		IN	SRV

;; ANSWER SECTION:
_minecraft._tcp.poa.st.	300	IN	SRV	0 0 25565 mc.poast.org.
sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@graf @Moon @p you could load balance a cluster of Minecraft servers with nginx

graf,
@graf@poa.st avatar

@sjw @Moon @p but they would all be different worlds, unless you mean sharing the same world data which means it would probably corrupt because different users hitting different blocks on seemingly different servers

i did this once for people on twitter. i set it up so they could move between an old version of the world and the new version via a bridge and some commands in minecraft. they could even carry their inventories over but it was very jank

sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@graf @Moon @p no the servers are communicating too.

Not too different from a cluster of database servers TBH.

p,
@p@shitposter.club avatar

@sjw @graf @Moon Do they coordinate with each other?

sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@p @graf @Moon they'd need to for them to work correctly

p,
@p@shitposter.club avatar

@sjw @graf @Moon

> Nginx can proxy UDP traffic

I don't know why you'd have nginx do that instead of iptables but I don't think lighttpd does that.

sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@p @graf @Moon actually you could probably use nginx as a network firewall if you wanted

threat,
@threat@shitposter.club avatar

@sjw @graf @Moon @p

> actually you could probably use nginx as a network firewall if you wanted

no. please don't. let the kernel do the lifting

sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@threat @graf @Moon @p what if we did it in :node:?

threat,
@threat@shitposter.club avatar

@sjw @graf @Moon @p then i would question the weed strain you're smoking which would lead to a long phone call on the virtues of knowing thy networking stack

sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@threat @graf @Moon @p yeah but it would be pretty funny

threat,
@threat@shitposter.club avatar

@sjw @graf @Moon @p no doubt. and proxying/load-balancing udp feels very much like giving yourself a handjob right after your arm fell asleep.

if it's something like dns with single packets, using nginx for this with listen udp will work, otherwise if it's multi-packet consider appending reuseport to the mix.

although i can't think of a good use-case to proxy udp at this time.

in regards to caddy. it's quick and just works. i'm not a zoomer, but i use it for things. what's nice is if you've got nginx config down there's an adapter to use native nginx configuration for caddy proxy.

this reminds me i need to publish my config for this particular proxy. it's always 3am and i'm always putting things off

sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@threat @graf @Moon @p what if we stored the routing tables and port mapping in redis?

threat,
@threat@shitposter.club avatar

@sjw @graf @Moon @p this could work but if you do this on the edge using our super secret backhaul system it might work. but keep in mind you'd need enough memory alloc to handle the k/v pairs as it could get quite large for a big boy instance

alternative you can persist to disk with a retention and purge cycle but you're still making roundtrip to the disk which eats io and may not be optimal.

or you can just use iptables or nftables for a simpler acl setup.

pyrate,
@pyrate@nicecrew.digital avatar

@threat @sjw @graf @Moon @p I'd recommend a SSD. Only use disks for extended storage.

threat,
@threat@shitposter.club avatar

@pyrate @sjw @graf @Moon @p its assumed disk == ssd

expecting any sort of performance on clicky rust is delusion

TURBORETARD9000,

@threat @sjw @pyrate @graf @Moon @p back in my day storing over 16GB on chips was expensive as hell

p,
@p@shitposter.club avatar

@TURBORETARD9000 @sjw @pyrate @graf @Moon @threat Back in my day, storing 16GB meant spending several hours with the CD burner.

moth_ball,

@p @TURBORETARD9000 @Moon @graf @pyrate @sjw @threat be negroido

I didn't read the hell thread sorry

p,
@p@shitposter.club avatar
p,
@p@shitposter.club avatar

@pyrate @sjw @graf @Moon @threat

> I'd recommend a SSD. Only use disks for extended storage.

I'll keep in mind that SSDs are not disks.

sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@p @pyrate @graf @Moon @threat they are tho

p,
@p@shitposter.club avatar

@sjw @pyrate @graf @Moon @threat thatsthejoke.jpg

mint,
@mint@ryona.agency avatar
p,
@p@shitposter.club avatar

@mint @sjw @pyrate @graf @Moon @threat Accurate. It is probably worth noting that sequential read optimizations are the reason that NVMe disks are long, but also why data is prone to falling out of them.

mint,
@mint@ryona.agency avatar

@p @sjw @pyrate @graf @Moon @threat At least NVMes aren't as prone to rotational velocidensity.
Husky_1709753756770_PSBSLZIKU2.…

sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@threat @graf @Moon @p no I'm going to write it in COBOL

threat,
@threat@shitposter.club avatar

@sjw @graf @Moon @p start writing cobol and all your money problems are solved

p,
@p@shitposter.club avatar

@sjw @graf @Moon @threat You gotta put the routing tables into Mongo.

p,
@p@shitposter.club avatar

@threat @sjw @Moon @graf

> no. please don't.

...Well, now he's gonna.

sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@p @graf @Moon @threat what if we stored and processed packets in postgres?

p,
@p@shitposter.club avatar

@sjw @graf @Moon @threat I still do it by hand, like a real sysadmin.

threat,
@threat@shitposter.club avatar

@sjw @graf @Moon @p what if we put our head in a dry-cleaning bag and desaturated?

sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@threat @graf @Moon @p what if every active connection was a python process?

r000t,
@r000t@ligma.pro avatar

@p @sjw @graf @Moon why is we leaving nginx when that perfectly good fork exists?

I'm staying on stronk russian httpd

dcc,
@dcc@annihilation.social avatar

@Moon @sjw @graf @p Apache werks here

sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@dcc @graf @Moon @p if Apache 2 is so good then why isn't there an Apache 3 yet?

p,
@p@shitposter.club avatar

@sjw @dcc @graf @Moon It's like SF3, they can't put a 3 in the title until after Apache httpd Zero, which they release as Apache httpd Alpha in the US.

coin,
@coin@asimon.org avatar

@Moon @sjw @graf @p I think that dev jumped the gun a little bit.

p,
@p@shitposter.club avatar

@graf @sjw @Moon Oh, yeah, I caught that, and I think you were CC'd on the DMs a couple of weeks ago from the guy that I don't know if I'm supposed to say who he is because he always DMs.

sjw,
@sjw@bae.st avatar

@p @graf @Moon I know I was there

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