The confusion stems from the fact there no APIs in Android that let apps use RCS. Only Google can use it on Android and no other apps can use it. Anyone can make an SMS app. Only Google can make an RCS app.
It is an open standard, meaning you are free to create your own operating system for phones that implements RCS. But Google doesn’t let you use it on Android, so in practice it’s closed.
Plus, Google’s implementation of RCS adds extra features (like encryption) that aren’t part of the standard. So even if you create your own operating system that implements RCS, it will still be incompatible. So that’s another reason it’s not really open.
It would also let them claim that its an open standard that anyone can use and they’re contributing to open source, even if no-one could effectively use it in the same way that they implemented it.
Yes and no.
You don’t need to make your own OS, but you do need to implement support for the RCS protocol within your app, rather than piggyback on Googles APIs.
I don’t like it, but there’s no legal requirement for google to provide those APIs, like they did with SMS etc.
That’s fair but that also means their “RCS” is really just a name they slapped on their latest proprietary messaging platform.
We know they’ve been trying to get ahead in the messenger game for many years, now maybe they figured if they use the RCS angle it might get some traction.
Or maybe I’m completely off, who knows. Google’s approach to messaging has always baffled me. They could have had a ton of traction and market share by now if they’d have just stuck with one. Why they keep tearing them down and building another one, and why they think this latest one will do any better, I have no idea.
You can interoperate with googles RCS.
If you are willing and able to enter a partnership like Samsung, you can do it fully (including encryption support etc).
Google are determined to not make it easy, and I agree with you, it appears to be yet another messaging land grab.
Trying to put myself in their headspace for a moment, one justification for making it hard is to stop thousands of apps coming out declaring “full RCS support!” through the APIs, then screwing the pooch (through poor security or deliberate back doors or or or).
Right now Google are desperately attempting to make RCS happen, after almost a decade of trying and failing to make various carriers play ball.
They do not want any bad press about how feature poor/insecure/slow/buggy it is right now.
If you are willing and able to enter a partnership like Samsung, you can do it fully (including encryption support etc).
Samsung can interoperate. We cannot. We cannot enter into partnerships with Google. We are people, Samsung is a massive corporation. You understand the difference, right? Google will not let us access their servers. They're not making it difficult, they're not making it possible at all.
you don't just need to support the protocol, you need a server to communicate with your client, and Google is not here to federate its RCS service with Bob's summer Github project.
Someone has written an open source RCS client prototype, but it has been only tested in China, where carriers do provide their own RCS servers as they are supposed. The author has not tested it with Google’s servers, which are probably blocked in China.
If you want to use SIM card based authentication, you need to have the app installed as a system app. That however is not an option for Google’s servers anyway, since they need to be able to work without carrier co-operation. Google uses SMS based authentication instead.
There does not necessarily need to be anything in Google’s servers that would reject non-Google RCS implementations: the SMS based authentication is defined in the spec, too.
Personally, I would not want the Google’s proprietary implementation to serve an API, but there to be a fully open source client instead.
Google is the exclusive RCS provider for all carriers in the US and many other countries. The desire for an AOSP android API is for developers to be able to write clients the way they do SMS clients, not to replace Google's servers—that's a pipe dream. IIRC, Google actually helped Samsung develop RCS support in their app. I'm not sure why it's so difficult to implement.
To add to this, even if it were really fully open, like, say, Lemmy is, because it requires servers there’s the issue of being allowed on someone else’s server and whether servers are modified, and whether server owners want to interoperate and so on.
In some ways the RCS debacle has been similar to the Fediverse debacle about federating with Threads, or with undesirable servers. Even if the protocols are open there can still be bad actors.
Matrix is the federated messaging network. It's also end to end encrypted, although people have pointed out issues with server security and with metadata—which is why they're working on peer to peer tech.
RCS is not similar to any federated technology at all. It's operated exclusively by Google in the US and most other countries. The technology was created, from the ground up, for carriers. But even carriers couldn't actually make it work in practice, so they asked Google to take over. It's a fucking albatross. We, as a society, need to drop it.
There is an RCS test app, we could theoretically modify that, but I guess nobody has for some reason. I don't particularly want people to use it, Matrix makes so much more sense.
worse? What did I miss - it was never good to start with. Alexa, Siri, Cortana, Google Assistant - all they were ever used for was set timers and play songs.
AI is the only hope to make them marginally more useful than they are.
My wife cannot set timers on our Nest Hub. It just doesn’t understand her command. I’ll say the exact same sentence right after and it’ll work. We did reset her voice profile, remove/add her back, checked all settings possible, nothing worked. Such a decent piece of hardware (speakers are actually pretty good, and the screen is decent and bright) that’s ruined by shitty software. It’s been unplugged for the last month and I didn’t even care. It’s going on Marketplace next week lol
I would have thought the same thing if it wasn’t that it used to work just fine, then one day it stopped working for her. One day, she tried setting alarms for dinner like she did every day before that, and it refused to comply, going “I don’t understand” or something like that.
Ok I’ve tossed this comment around in my head a few times, and I can’t fathom why you bothered to make it. What the fuck is the difference between an alarm that goes off at 9:15 and a timer that goes off at 9:15?
Timer counts down time and can be paused; an alarm goes off at particular time and can only be snoozed after it goes off. Alarms take into account timezones and time changes, timers are absolute and independent of “clock” time
Timers are set for a duration. Alarms are set for a time. Which makes sense btw, you can’t set an egg timer to 9:15 either, you set it for, say, 21 minutes (if it’s 8:54 right now). And you don’t set your alarm clock for “in 6 hours”, you set it for 8:00.
It’s a bit arbitrary, but this is exactly where I feel models such as Gemini or ChatGPT can actually improve things, because they can more readily leap from the keyword “timer” expecting a duration to that you actually meant “alarm” from the rest of the input, you just said timer instead.
The point is all timers are alarms, the end result of a timer going off is an alarm. If I’m cooking and I realize the rice has been on for about 7 minutes so it should finish up at 9:15, then that’s how I’m thinking about it, not doing the math to figure out what the specific number of minutes is between now and 9:15. That’s the goddamned robot’s job.
I think if you realize youve been cooking rice for about 7 minutes you will definitely think in terms of time LEFT and not at what time o’clock it should be ready. “Oh it’s been cooking for about 7 minutes then it needs another 8”
Location-aware reminders is almost literally all I want from an assistant these days. “Remind me of x next time I’m at y, or by z time at the latest.” Is this an impossible task? I can imagine how I would code it, but maybe I’m missing something.
I think they just haven’t figured out how to monetize it, really. I agree that it’s totally codable. I could do it with tasker if it were my job, IE, I was paid to and had 8h a day to do it.
Where’s the monetization in alarms, though? Or time-based reminders? Surely those are no more lucrative than what I’m asking for, yet they’ve existed for years.
I just find it shocking that anyone ever used it. It’s completely useless. I ask it to do something as simple as turning on a light. Sometimes it can’t connect to the server (which is a completely stupid necessity). Sometimes it turns on the light. Sometimes it says it can’t connect to the service that turns the fucking light on. Sometimes the little lights come on to indicate it’s thinking and then just… doesn’t do anything. Sometimes it will turn on the light with just a “bing”. Sometimes it will say “okay turning on the light”.
It’s completely unpredictable at best while completing the most mundane tasks.
Sometimes it can’t connect to the server (which is a completely stupid necessity).
That’s where it does the voice processing. The only processing it does on-device is the wake word and taking commands. Actually figuring out what you mean is done in The Cloud. Doing that on-device would not only make the devices significantly more expensive, but they would also rapidly become outdated.
The rest of your complaints are valid and I’ve experienced them all myself to boot.
Doing that on-device would not only make the devices significantly more expensive, but they would also rapidly become outdated.
Uhhhh no. For one that technology already exists on home assistant and can run on a raspberry pi. For another, Android devices already do that with apps like GBoard and Google Recorder.
you’re talking about devices that are like, 5-10x the price of the nest mini.
Devices you already have and carry with you everywhere…?
I mean if it’s really about money they could at least offer a “hub” of sorts as an optional accessory that other devices can talk to for local processing for a significantly improved experience, and if people don’t want to pay for it they can just not.
Since Android 10 the OS has really gone downhill IMO.
IIRC they have also been ripping out workarounds that people use to keep their apps open, so expect things like Syncthing/OpenVPN/Element/Termux etc to no longer be able to survive in the background - I believe the non dismissable notifications are a part of that too. To me this also means apps using their own push services are now being forced into a position where they’ll need to consider Google Cloud Messaging.
The OpenVPN one is pretty poor because unless you have it set to be always-on, Android can kill it freely now, then completely bypass your VPN preference because “it’s not working”
These new changes in A14 kind of show everything wrong with having an ad company in charge of a mobile OS
If the foreground apps need the resources (RAM, CPU) the OS will kill apps that are in the background. There used to be various things apps could do to reduce the risk of being killed, but these options have gradually been reduced in recent years.
Set the battery usage of your essential apps to Unrestricted and your persistence problem is solved. Android has vastly improved its security by cutting off the workarounds shady (and legit) apps have used to persist. Some of these improvement are from GrapheneOS devs hardening the AOSP pipeline and increasing everyone’s privacy. You mention VPN apps getting neutered. I’ve never experienced Wireguard getting killed by Android and I use that app nearly continuously. I also use Syncthing all day. Setting its battery use to unrestricted keeps it working just fine. I use the app’s internal options to disable syncing when my battery tapers off. The hacky workarounds you speak of to maintain persistence on A14 should be killed off to improve everyone’s privacy.
It’s supposed to, but on my Realme X3 it just does whatever it wants irrespective. Not Android 14 admittedly, but I have little faith that any future phone will behave in this regard.
Set the battery usage of your essential apps to Unrestricted and your persistence problem is solved
The background app battery usage feature (otherwise known as “allow background activity”, “battery care”, or “Adaptive battery”) is a different feature to what I’m talking about here sadly AFAICT, and doesn’t affect the relative importance weight of apps when Android’s memory management is looking for things to kill.
The only thing that the background app battery usage restriction does is stop “inactive” apps from running in the background if they are using up a lot of CPU time, and if the app is not being interacted with frequently: either directly by the user, indirectly via Google Cloud Messaging, or by another app on the device. From what I can tell, it’s completely separate to Android’s memory management and solely exists to extend battery life.
Android has vastly improved its security by cutting off the workarounds shady (and legit) apps have used to persist.
Shady apps already persist using Google (Firebase) Cloud Messaging, and this change does not impact them. Even if they are killed by the separate background battery app usage feature, a simple push message typically brings these back.
The hacky workarounds you speak of to maintain persistence on A14 should be killed off to improve everyone’s privacy.
I wouldn’t exactly categorize this as a hacky workaround, since it follows the documented relative app importance weights used by Android’s memory management. Users can even bypass this themselves by swiping on the persistent notification, and hiding those types of app notifications.
If anything IMO it forces apps to be less transparent about their activity, since they cannot communicate to the user that they are running
If I’m wrong about the background battery app feature’s seemingly lack of impact on Android’s memory management please do let me know - I’ve yet to come across anything suggesting it does ☹️
The enshitification of Assistant is what prompted me, a few months ago, to embark on a quest to remove Google (and other cloud-based services) from my home automation setup. I’ve since swapped over to Home Assistant using Zigbee for almost everything.
I had to keep the Alexa integration going, or the other half would lose their god damned mind because apparently, that’s the only way on the entire planet to turn the light by the couch on and off.
But yeah, next up is just replacing all the light switches with zigbee-enabled ones so I can go full scary motion detection in a room thing. It’s going to be super futuristic in here, like 1998!
I would respectfully disagree with the last point. For Joe Schmoe who is just scrolling Reddit you will probably be fine with 8-12gb, especially if you intend to cut down on your budget.
For Joe Schmoe who is just scrolling Reddit you will probably be fine with 8-12gb, especially if you intend to cut down on your budget.
Joe Schmoe cutting down on budget shouldn’t throw away money on MacBooks then. I had a low-end notebook 10 years ago that I upgraded for little to 16GB RAM 10 years ago.
Video memory is shared with main RAM on “Joe Schmoe” notebooks. It’s really noticeable when a few browser tabs are open. Source: Me when I had an 8GB RAM HP notebook with an iGPU.
Linux uses half the RAM Windows does in a fresh install. 8GB can absolutely be done on a Linux system without worry. To aid systems with 4-8GB RAM, Windows compresses. This has allowed OEMs to ship systems with 8GB as a minimum. This just isn’t enough for multitasking. The CPU is tasked with constantly compressing and decomposing if you’re attempting to multitask. This can make an already cheap laptop feel a little more sluggish. 16GB has always been the minimum for gaming systems and these days it’s becoming apparent 32GB is needed. 8GB is just pitiful for a computer these days.
Addressing the OP, mobile devices used to only need 2-4GB for the longest time. The OS wasn’t that heavy because the ARM CPU could only do so much. As the CPUs improved, higher resolutions were used, prettier animations and more features got added. This all needs more RAM. Android developer options will tell you how much RAM you’re using. A feature of Android is to keep a process cached in RAM that’s been recently used. This is present to aid in battery life. Even if you swipe the app away from recents list, a portion is cached so the next time you start it, the CPU doesn’t have to work as hard to load it up. You can see this under Running services > Cached processes. This means it’s more beneficial for the mobile device to have more RAM.
The point isn’t that 8gb is unusable for light tasks. I have a $300 Lenovo with Windows and 8gb RAM and I don’t see any problems.
The point is that a $1500 premium device should come with 16gb RAM at minimum, because for the manufacturer the cost is almost nothing. Yes, Apple makes much more money selling extra 8gb of RAM for $300 rather than just put a 16gb chip for literally pennies and adsorb the cost but that’s because they’re scammers
16gb is fine if you can afford it and you are doing lots of thinks on your computer but isn’t necessary if you just have a few tabs on a budget machine.
If I was able to upgrade a 4GB notebook to 16GB ten years ago for little money, it’s not a budget matter (unless it’s Apple who charge insane amounts of money for 16GB).
As an owner of a second hand entry level Macbook, it’s constantly swapping. You don’t notice it that much because today’s SSDs are very fast, but undoubtedly this will affect the lifetime of the device and reflects a poor choice in memory specifications.
When you asked the answer was yes, but, then after a day or two they actually force enabled WITHOUT the app being installed. At least for me and a few others online.
It was better than the first day when I tried it, but still not fully functional, I’ve moved back to Google Assistant again. It doesn’t do all of the “Home” commands and it struggles with setting up calendar events and reminders.
Nah, this is Google’s version of ChatGPT with speech to text and text to speech. Unlike Siri, it can hold a real conversation, the problem is that it’s worse as an actual assistant for the moment.
I think that’s the funniest part. Like, as far as I know, the regular Assistant uses the same approach to handling data that buzzword AI things use, a neural network. But branding (and potentially internal company politics) is weird, so they decided to kneecap Assistant in order to make Gemini look better on release.
Generative AI is different, it can generate better responses that aren’t just programmed canned responses. However I fully agree with you, they’re trying their hardest to do a bullshit rebrand with it. They could have just swapped it out with assistant and I would have been ecstatic. By rebranding it I get that same bad taste in my mouth whenever marketing elbows themselves into the conversation.
Yeah. It’s saturated, so it’s much harder to succeed now than it was 10 years ago. Gone are the days when large numbers of people were impulse-buying everything just because it was there and it was only $0.99.
I guess that’s why there’s not much middle ground between free/libre apps and heavily monetized subscriptions and microtransactions.
No, it’s not a feature, it’s a missing feature. When your backup and restore system only works sometimes, despite being set up correctly, then that’s a shit backup solution.
Also. Who the hell uses Ios?
Everybody who uses an iPhone. Which is a metric shitload of people. What kind of question is that?
I don’t think you’re following. We were discussing the state of backups on Signal, then you suddenly decided not to talk about it, but to keep talking about nothing in particular.
To be fair, to some degree this is exactly the use case stochastic parrots (the thing we call ‘AI’ as a buzzword) can truly excel at:
Interpeting the bullshit we stammer out when we try to give a verbal command while totally not adhering to any reliable command structure.
Formulating a reply that sounds like fairly natural language despite how inane the sources used might be.
So yeah, we’re finally at a real use case. Gimme! And from briefly trying it, Gemini is better at figuring things out from impresice input than Assistant was.
Make no mistake, it’s ultimately the same backend. They just swapped the processing layer between audio-to-text parsing and running inputs from them (and again on the way back). Sadly no Google Now smartness at all, we’ve lost that forever. But hey, at least this improves stuff.
I miss ten years ago, when Googlers jumped out of a plane whilst in a Google Glass video call and landed straight into IO. Yeah it was a gimmick, but it got us all talking.
I miss when Android was less mature and had a lot of catching up to do, and IO was the delivery of all the exciting enhancements coming to Android.
It’s hard to get excited when the biggest announcements this year will be… “We made our AI better, buy our phone and you’ll be able to use it”.
It can’t have faster charging because it lacks the space to dissipate the thermal energy to stop it from catching on fire. If it did support 45W on paper, it would still charge slower to prevent thermal runaway. The “Ultra” models have thermal cooling systems that rival laptop computers just short of active cooling fans.
It can’t have UWB because it’s too small for the 30,000 antennae they have to jam in the phone. 4x for cellular, then GPS, WiFi, Bluetooth, Wireless charging, NFC, and on and on.
These phones, especially Samsung, jam so much technology in such a small package. We’re brushing up against the laws of physics.
And lets not even talk about then also expecting good cellular reception when on your lower cellular bands. Take 700MHz for example, an ideal 1/2 wavelength antenna would have to be 21cm/8.2in tall, so they have to use fractional wavelengths that further degrade performance potential, again, due to physics. (While still also supporting the fractional wavelengths of 30 other bands.) The plus and ultra models at least have space to approach more usable antennae for better reception. The tiny phones (and watches) don’t really have a chance.
Now, Google’s software feature nonsense, and the way handset manufacturers manipulate price for a few cents worth of storage increase are both downright criminal. However, the telephoto lens thing again goes back to space and reality. Telephoto cameras take up a ton of space. Look at a teardown of the S22 Ultra to see how big the camera modules are.
That’s actually an annoying point I recently observed though. The S24 ultra has a lower resolution 10x camera than either the S22 Ultra or S23 Ultra. I think they’re trying to make up the difference with “AI” instead of real sensor/glass. Maybe it’ll get rid of the camera rattle though.
Yeah it’s actually infuriating to read some of these threads. Some of the small phone users expect Oppo Find X7 Ultra cameras with a 5000 mAh battery and headphone jack in an iPhone 5S form factor and the only argument they make is the phone can be thicker. Thickness is only one dimension, all these components need space in other dimensions too.
Only With the 3.5 mm audio jack. Bluetooth devices always have some delay, never are immune from connection problems or intermittent readback (especially if you have other devices you switch between), and don’t last as long as they advertise. The delay thing is particularly irksome on the phone and watching videos. Much less important for music, but I’m not the kinda guy who plays music a lot. The battery thing is probably less of an issue these days, and could maybe be discarded, but I also forget to charge important devices, so that’s a me thing and party of the reason.
My hill is the microsd card slot. I might have to figure out how to make my note 20 ultra last another 40 years, though. :-(
On another note; if compatible, APTX Bluetooth codec is pretty lag free when watching streaming videos. For local videos, there is a bit of noticeable lag on a lot of players, but I use VLC and it has an audio/video sync setting you can manually adjust so it matches up correctly and it will forever save that setup for you.
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