The IRS is the biggest wage thief. It even requires the employers to steal on their behalf.
A self-employed person could simply not pay payroll taxes for example, and have use of that money until they decided to pay, if at all, a W-2 cannot avoid it.
Similarly, a W-2 can only avoid income tax withholding if they had no tax liability in the previous year and no expectation of such a liability in the current year. Again, a self-employed person could simply not pay the tax, including via quarterlies, and have use of the money.
Tl;dr you're a clown for looking at the employer and not your government. 🤡
You've also make the mistake of assuming that the employer would pay more if every violation were avoided. Most likely, wages would just be adjusted to account for the cost of labor. Basically, you're inventing money ex nihilo by using a static model to represent a dynamic system.
It's not unpaid. That's your mistake. You fail to grasp the dynamics of economic systems. Value will adjust if all transgressions are avoided. It will move downward because the same money supply will have to buy more labor. If labor is measured in hours, this means hourlies will decrease, but the employee will get more hours of pay. The net benefit to the employee will be zero.
@Humpleupagus
> I rent a commodity for 8 hours, but I actually use it for 10. This is fair because if I didn't the market price would adjust, lowering the price per hour
What I want you to do is show me where the employee transfered $500 of lost overtime to the employer, and don't point to a statute, contract, or the intrinsic value of labor. Show me the "money" that was stolen. You can't.
Plus, she's using a theory of legal damages to establish actual theft. There's a huge difference between me stealing your actual car and a legislature saying that you would have had a car but for my legal transgression, which was not stealing an actual car.
The former is a factual matter, the later only needs to be supported by a legal policy with a "rational basis," which is hardly a real constitutional legal standard at all and doesn't necessarily reflect anything but the declarations of the regime in power.
@Humpleupagus@Xenophon@moffintosh Ah I have you now goyim look here here would be no theft in communism though, you need to own property for that. It just works- karl marx
Honestly I believe lenin was like the todd howard of his time
I just think the issues are far more complex than the simpleton math that OP attempts to sell. The issue lies at the intersection of many legal theories and rules, culture, and the natural flow of economic markets and systems.
One thing I note here is something I saw with a lot of my classmates as we approached graduation, and that's that many believed that they had to work for someone, for a firm. It didn't even occur to them that they could work for themselves. Mental slaves.
I of course sat down and did some very simple math — "I'm poor as fuck. If I get my license, I can make charge $xxx.xx an hour starting. If I work four hours a month (and collect on it), I can pay rent on a small apartment. If I work another four, I can buy groceries. And so on. I just need to put up an advert and get a one or two clients a month to start."
I didn't have any "profit" my first five years, and there were period were I had employees, and there were times when I loaned money in to make payroll until I collect that "big check" from client X. Cash flow isn't always fluid. I didn't see the employees chipping in their dime or taking a pay cut to help out. Everyone's a communist until they have to pay to keep the business running.
Far too many communists just assume businesses are automatically profitable and constantly flush with excess money like Scrooge McDuck. But that is to be expected when most communists are just envious rather than truly principled.
They probably also don't know the difference between accrual and cash accounting, and therefore, don't understand what "profit" actually means in many of the cases about which they complain.
Either that or they want the business to pay wages by distributing rights to collect and/or sue upon accounts recievable to the employee.
I won't mention that the government has also taxed me via Obamcare, and not only ruined the quality of the healthcare services I receive, but also quadrupled how much I pay. They did this to hand the money I earned from my labor to others, and without the limitation that arms length transactions provide. Now doctors and hospitals lobby for their money in lieu of providing services, but OP thinks that the government is autonomous and therfore its not theft.
But you are in California. Still, it is fucking highway robbery.
Worst part is I was ineligible for Obamacare stuff because my work place had insurance. It was so terrible I might as well have gone uninsured and I did. $5000 deductible terrible.
Yeah. I didn't mention the plan got me expensive too. I had no deductible, no co-pay, etc. Now I match 33% up to $10k per family member (a potential $50k total) annually.
My though is if I save that money back instead of giving it to insurance, I could have a huge sum saved back if something happened. We never go to the doc anyway.The only problem would be if we had a major even that cost tens or hundreds of thousands.
@Silverwolf@Evil_Bender@Humpleupagus@moffintosh@Omega_Variant@Big_Richard Dangerously based.
Got hit by a car (hit and run) some several years back, my arm took off its side view mirror. The injury 'bent' my forearm and made it feel weird to use those fingers for about four to six months. Just used a shirt as a sling and eventually started holding it in a guarded position until it was completely healed.
Didn't set it, didn't put it in a cast, it just returned to its normal shape on its own. lol
Took a spill on a bike. Slid on the right side of my chest. Hand felt funny in my pointer finger and thumbs for years. Like nerve pain. One day, I get the worse pain in my back. Hook up a tens unit and lay on the couch for a week. Discovered the reason my back hurt is because I tore my right pec minor (no counter tension, so my back cramped up). The pain in my thumb and pointer finger went away though, and it took me a year to build back what muscle I could there. If I went to a doctors, they'd try to sell me a surgery because insurance is paying, right? 🙄
A doctor will never properly diagnose you until you are dying. Until then, you drink too much, don't eat right, don't exercise enough, and don't get enough sleep. sounds of tumor growth
Me any one of my associates were talking about that last night LMAO.
His brother suddenly got a few lumps under his skin. Went to a doctor, doctor just felt of them and said it was cancer. No biopsy, no nothing. Fast forward and he went to another doc who actually checked into it and did a scan. He was like dude...it's just scar tissue.
Extracting the most out of one's workers is only possible when one doesn't care if the workers leave, i.e. over-supply of the service.
Government only has to deal with the threshold of emigration and possibly open armed rebellion and can therefore steal a lot more.
And corporations, don't forget, are the tax collectors of the government, in exchange for government protection of the owners and managers. However, doesn't apply to small firms.
There's is another view though, and that's that W-2 withholding is basically a psyop created by the government and large institutional employers. The theory is basically that the business is the actual tax payer, and the paystub is just a book keeping entry that gives the employee the false sense that there's something to fight about re wages and taxes (because they see money being taken) and therefore they NPC and become predictable and controllable political actors. It leads the employee to believe they have something to fight about re ownership of the business, taxes, wages, or the government. "My taxes paid for that!"
Think of it this way, if the government collects taxes to create or maintain roads, is it for the employee who "needs to get to work" or the employer who "needs labor pools to have access to their workplace" and "products to have access to markets'? Cui bono?
So the employer and the government, via W-2, tricks the "tax payer" into believing that they're actually paying taxes (when the business is the one making the deposits with the fed) and thereby gets them to psychologically vest themselves into the NPC political games and economic life.
Labor law can work n the same way. OP believes she has a vested interest and wants to fight about it. The ultimate NPC mind slave.
So in your opinion, if government didn't steal half the salary, the employee would still only get what they get now?
When I ran a company, I paid the employees as much as possible, to ensure that they didn't leave to someone who paid more. From my PoV, income tax is paid for by the employees, and so are all the additional social fees (in Europe) on top.
A Swedish corporation started to put ALL the taxes on the payslip, and was outlawed immediately.
I'm not saying which theory to buy. I'm just saying it's out there. It does make some sense though in context given the creation of the income tax, the fed, and the full assembly line industrialization of the US after that, all the way down to the schools. FDR put it all on steroid shortly after the initial legal structures were in place.
@Humpleupagus@Big_Richard@moffintosh it'd be "cool" if they actually used it to keep up infrastructure and roll back integrationist policies or something.
instead I get crumbling infrastructure to drive my shitty car on while taking gay ass toll roads to avoid inner city "youths" on my way to work (and I'm not sure if the toll really pays for the infrastructure, either).
Another issue is the cost. One reason college and Healthcare are so expensive is because the government has made large pools of money available to those industries, which is then lobbied for. There's little limiting factor in the expenditure. Because the money is lobbied for, the quality goes down, because the means of getting the money is not the quality of the service, but rather political cronyism. So even if you get what you paid for, it often isn't as good or as cheap as it would be in markets where everyone paid directly.
For example, if doctors had to scramble to get patients and couldn't just make insurance claims to collect, the price of care would necessarily plummet and quality would go up as doctors competed. Take away the control they have over the prescriptions, that they're the only game in town, and you could get advice from a gp for $60/hr easily, you'd be seen quicker, and sometimes the same day. But no, we got communist faggots who don't understand markets whatsoever, and so we pay out the ass and wait weeks to see a doctor. I was around in the 80's. I remember what it was like. Doctors still made house calls. But this is winning for the commies I guess. 🙄
@Humpleupagus@lichelordgodfrey@moffintosh@Big_Richard The story I always tell people of waiting several months to see a dermatologist in the states versus when I was visiting China and we walked right in to the hospital/med center and into the dermatologist‘s office (with the dermatologist there sitting their waiting for us). That’s what cash-on-the-table buys. In the states patients are, at best, tertiary customers to the government and insurance companies; it really is amazing it works at all.
@Humpleupagus@EvilSandmich@moffintosh@lichelordgodfrey@Big_Richard The good ones try, but there’s a reason they referred it - they don’t have the specialized training to do it without a high likelihood of making mistakes. A better solution would be for the specialist do either see the patients earlier or do a quick video consult and set up a plan the GP can administer to bridge the patient until the meeting.
Good luck to your mom, I hope everything works out well for her.
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